Geocoding USA & Canada since 2005.

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Lawsuit Concluded - May 2016.

Legal News, May 2016 - In regards to Canadian Postal Code data on Geocoder.ca:

Lawsuit Update
This is the final update on the status of Canada Post's copyright/trademark lawsuit against Geocoder.ca, Ervin Ruci and Geolytica.

Canada Post has discontinued this lawsuit..

I can not comment on the terms of the settlement, other than to say this: The terms of settlement are confidential but our agreed statement is this:

"Canada Post commenced court proceedings in 2012 against Geolytica Inc. for copyright infringement in relation to Geolytica Inc.'s Canadian Postal Code Geocoded Dataset and related services offered on its website at geocoder.ca. The parties have now settled their dispute and Canada Post will discontinue the court proceedings. The postal codes returned by various geocoder interface APIs and downloadable on geocoder.ca, are estimated via a crowdsourcing process. They are not licensed by geocoder.ca from Canada Post, the entity responsible for assigning postal codes to street addresses. Geolytica continues to offer its products and services, using the postal code data it has collected via a crowdsourcing process which it created."

While it is unfortunate that it took Canada Post 4 years to come to this conclusion, this turn of events reinforces our long held position that our postal code data is crowd sourced.

PS. I'd like to thank all those who have donated to our legal defense fund. All excess funds will be donated to those who conducted our legal defense pro bono over the past four years, with special thanks to the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC) and RIDOUT & MAYBEE LLP. PS. I'd like to thank all those who have supported our position and donated to our legal defense fund. All excess funds All excess donations and/or other funds we have received at the conclusion of this lawsuit, will be donated to those who conducted our legal defense pro bono over the past four years of legal wrangling, with special thanks to the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC) and RIDOUT & MAYBEE LLP.

CP Lawsuit News | Updates | Comments More information on Court number: T-519-12 PROCEEDINGS Log via the Federal Court of Canada Website.

23/March/2012 - Ottawa, ON

We have been sued over a free database we offer on this website under the "Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Canada License."

This is the gist of the matter: Since 2004 we have crowdsourced* the generation of the "Canadian Postal Code Geocoded Database." When you make a query to geocoder containing for example this information "1435 Prince of Wales, Ottawa, ON K2C 1N5", we then extract the postal code "K2C 1N5" and insert it into the database that you may download for free on this website.

This allows you to look up a postal code (eg K2C 1N5) on www.geocoder.ca, or www.openstreetmap.org or a number of other sites that use geocoder.ca data and technology.

Since we do not have a postal code dataset from the authority on postal code assignments, namely "Canada Post", we derive and guess this information oftentimes very accurately.

Now "Canada Post" has sued "Geocoder.ca" in Federal Court, asking "Geocoder.ca" to take this database down from this website, and also to "pay Canada Post" damages on lost business the later has suffered by not selling enough copies of their own postal code file (last time I checked at $5,000CAD a piece).

This brings us here. Having to face a crown corporation with deep pockets in Federal Court, over something we have created but which they believe otherwise.

Fighting for principle is expensive, and we will do it. It will be easier with your help.

Sincerely,

Ervin Ruci.

Update #16: 09-October-2015:

CanadaPost's lawsuit, now in its 4rth year, is ongoing and it looks like it is finally getting a court date soon (they have been quiet for a while, probably wishing to keep this under wraps until after the Federal Election.)

Either way, we are still here, and we are still providing a free database of postal addresses and postal codes that is bigger and better than ever.

The main database has grown considerably in the last 4 years, further proof that crowdsourcing works! As of the last update on 2015-09-30, 12613 new postal codes were added, with the total now approaching 1 million.

You may download all these data for free at http://geocoder.ca/?freedata=1 (under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Canada License.)

Will keep you posted as to the latest developments from the federal court. All the best and thank you for your support.

Update #15: 25-March-2015:

Not much to report on the legal front. Waiting for the legal system's gears to turn and put an end to this copyright/trademark nonsense. I also recently gave a talk about this at the 'State of the Map.' My slides are here.

Update #14: 10-May-2014:

Internal survey blasts feds for missing database

Update #13: 23-Apr-2013:

Canada Post is pursuing their legal action with a new twist (now they are also claiming infringment on the trademarked word-pair 'postal code.') I wrote a lengthy blog post about this on my personal blog eruci.com, because this time around they are also suing me personally.

Most incredibly though, with this updated new claim they are now suing other websites, on the basis that "they use the Geocoder.ca free XML port to earn revenue(?!)"

Update #12: 22-Mar-2013:

Although Canadapost has moved to release at least some of their data, as was the case with their 3-digit postal code polygon file (a small step in the right direction but a significant one still, because they have never released any data before), their lawsuit against geocoder.ca continues. We thank all those that continue to express interest and support geocoder's position. We hope to have a more detailed update in April 2013.

Update #11: 1-Feb-2013:

A quick update. The legal case is now in discovery, which means each side gets to hear the other's arguments. Once this stage is complete (sometime in March 2013) we'll have more to share with all interested parties.

Update #10: 10-July-2012:

Dr. Emir Crowne, an Associate Professor at the University of Windsor, Faculty of Law and a Barrister & Solicitor with the Law Society of Upper Canada has joined our legal team.

Update #9: 24-May-2012: A few quick updates.
  1. The case is now in what is called "legal procedure". That means back and forth between the two legal camps and inching closer towards being presented before a judge.
  2. How it affects our business. Strangely enough we are a little bit branded with a hot iron for certain companies. For example, a credit card payment processor in the USA can not process our financial transactions because they became aware of this ongoing litigation after visiting this very page. I presented them with the question "would you have the same stance towards google or oracle who are similarly engaged in litigation?" This was their response
  3. How it affects your business. Some of our customers have expressed concerns as to how this litigation may affect them. Is canadapost going to sue everyone that uses geocoder.ca? It would be very surprising if they now go after IBM, Mapquest, Openstreetmap, Securitas or even the handful federal government departments that use geocoder.ca data and related services. Although there seems to be no limit to copyright insanity these days. And it has happenned before in other countries. All I can say to such concerns however is that "To our knowledge, Canada Post Corporation has not sought any legal action against any our clients for using our datasets. Moreover, we're confident that our datasets are entirely free of any copyright infringement and we're presently vigorously defending ourselves against Canada Post's allegations."
Update #8: 08-May-2012: Politicians are taking notice.
Update #7: 30-April-2012: Just saw this article. It seems like Canada Post is embarking on a public relations charm offensive. I too agree that "hygiene of the address data" is important. Perhaps Canada Post should also listen to what some of Geocoder.ca clients have to say about that. Among those who are writing to their MP's about this case, this is one letter that was copied to me yesterday (published here with the author's consent).
Update #6: 27-April-2012: Canadapost has responded to the statement of defense maintaining their position as well as throwing in a few interesting viewpoints on the way geocoder.ca does business as well as implying that geocoder.ca is partly responsible for their mail delivery problems. So the case moves on further through the hoops of the legal system. In the meantime I have received a large number of letters of support from the public and even some of Canada Post's own employees (past and present). With their permission I am posting some of these emails here.
From:
Date: April 15, 2012 8:58:28 PM EDT
To: geodata@geocoder.ca
Subject: Canada Post's lawsuit against you for postal code infringement

Dear Mr. Ruci

I just read the media reports about Canada post's lawsuit against Geocoder for alleged unlicensed/improper use of the postal code.

I was an executive at Canada Post from 1983 to 2000 and for several of those years had part of the reponsibility for overseeing the postal code and its use. In that light I would like to share some thoughts with you, all of which may have already occurred to you and your lawyers, but if not I hope they will be helpful.

The present day postal code, as you are probably well aware, was implemented between 1971 and 1974. At no time since 1971 has the Government of Canada ever tried to legally protect the allegedcopyright or intellectual property of the postal code. In fact I can tell you that during the mid-80's there was some internal consideration of trying to protect the IP of the postal code, and prevent its use by competitors such as FedEx, UPS, and others, but it was concluded by the Corporation's lawyers that so much time has passed since the implementation of the code, and that the Corporation had agressively done so much by then to encourage unlimited public usage of the postal code, that the Corporation would be estopped in any legel attempts at that stage to limit the public domain use of the postal code. We are now 41 years since the implementation of the code began and I would suspect that the Corporation's hurdle on estoppel would be insurmountable today.

The second aspect of your case is one that's typical of Canada Post's corporate behaviour. They haven't decided to take on one of the giants of industry (FedEx, UPS, major advertisers, Governments, etc, etc) who have freely used the postal for decades. No, they have decided to go after your small business that they suspect won't have the resources to withstand the withering firepower of the bottomless public purse that can be used to crush a small company. Unquestionably that is hopefully another leg of your defence.

Finally, and hopefully you can find an Ottawa-area lobbyist that can help you out either pro-bono or for a minimal amount to get the politician's attention on this one, and public sentiement whipped up against politicians and a huge Crown Corporation that would indiscriminately use the public purse to attack a small business such as yours. There is no way that the Government or Canada Post should be allowed to use public money to try to protect something they haven't protected in 40 years.

Hopefully you will be able to punch way above your weight on this one and stop Canada post dead in its tracks in what for it is a despicable initiative.

Good luck!

A retired Canada Post executive

I also found something else that may be of interest: Canada Post Cease and Desist letter outlining their views on postal code copyright.
Update #5: 23-April-2012: Give me your postal code. We are on course to release the largest update to our postal code file to date (Scheduled for May 1st 2012). We asked Canadians to Give us their postal code and they did! The publicity of this legal case is the best thing to happen to the quality of our geocoded postal code dataset. Have you given us your postal code yet? If not, go ahead and do so at this url (don't forget to include your street address as well). In return we will give you a better dataset.
Update #4: 14-April-2012: Donations to the "Geocoder.ca legal defense fund" continue, topping a total of over $1200 in total donations until now. We thank everyone (and will continue to individually thank each and every one of those that have donated). We also re-iterate our previous pledge for any funds in excess to our legal costs (if this becomes the case), to a similar purpose. Money should serve a purpose, any purpose, except making it. That's my view at any rate.
Update #3: 12-April-2012: Statement of Defence Filed and Served by CIPPIC.
Update #2: 12-April-2012: There has been an outpouring of support and donations to our cause. To date over $700 in total donations have been received for the "Geocoder.ca legal defense fund." We thank everyone (and will individually thank each and every one of those that have donated, very soon). We also pledge any funds in excess to our legal costs (if this becomes the case), to a similar cause.
Update #1: 3-April-2012: The Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC) is now representing geocoder.ca in federal court. About CIPPIC.
*Crowdsourcing explained
The full Scoop: 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 4 .. 5 .. 6 .. 7 .. 8 .. 9 .

Legal News, May 2016 - In regards to Canadian Postal Code data on Geocoder.ca:

Canada Post commenced court proceedings in 2012 against Geolytica Inc. for copyright infringement in relation to Geolytica Inc.'s Canadian Postal Code Geocoded Dataset and related services offered on its website at geocoder.ca. The parties have now settled their dispute and Canada Post will discontinue the court proceedings. The postal codes returned by various geocoder interface APIs and downloadable on geocoder.ca, are estimated via a crowdsourcing process. They are not licensed by geocoder.ca from Canada Post, the entity responsible for assigning postal codes to street addresses. Geolytica continues to offer its products and services, using the postal code data it has collected via a crowdsourcing process which it created. Notice of Discontinuance